So much for trains
Jan. 7th, 2007 05:40 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
I was just attempting to get train fares for a journey from Sierre (Swiss Alps) to London.
Holy crap! How do they expect anyone to use trains? I can get from Sierre to Paris at a reasonable price - a very reasonable price for a direct TGV that takes 5:20. But that's no use whatsoever, if it then costs THREE TIMES AS MUCH for the Paris to London link, which is only 2:40.
</rant>
EDIT: Many thanks for the
purpletigron/
purplecthulhu's advice on getting round Eurostar.
EDIT: OK, I can do Sierre to Paris-Lyon for 113 CHF, if I buy it from the Swiss, and using the halbtax card. That's just under £48. And going via the "I am American" part of the Eurostar site allows me to buy the single/non-flexible fare at $89 each - which is roughly £45. That's compared to the insane £300+ it was trying to do me for originally for the Paris to London leg!
So, Swiss Alps to central London for £93 isn't too bad. I just wish it wasn't such an incredible hassle finding this all out. If I was a PA doing this, and factoring in the cost of my time, it'd be another matter.
EDIT: Ooops, forgot time zone differences. That was 2:40, not 1:40
Holy crap! How do they expect anyone to use trains? I can get from Sierre to Paris at a reasonable price - a very reasonable price for a direct TGV that takes 5:20. But that's no use whatsoever, if it then costs THREE TIMES AS MUCH for the Paris to London link, which is only 2:40.
</rant>
EDIT: Many thanks for the
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EDIT: OK, I can do Sierre to Paris-Lyon for 113 CHF, if I buy it from the Swiss, and using the halbtax card. That's just under £48. And going via the "I am American" part of the Eurostar site allows me to buy the single/non-flexible fare at $89 each - which is roughly £45. That's compared to the insane £300+ it was trying to do me for originally for the Paris to London leg!
So, Swiss Alps to central London for £93 isn't too bad. I just wish it wasn't such an incredible hassle finding this all out. If I was a PA doing this, and factoring in the cost of my time, it'd be another matter.
EDIT: Ooops, forgot time zone differences. That was 2:40, not 1:40
Actually from purplecthulhu, busy on another line
Date: 2007-01-07 05:52 pm (UTC)Look at The Man In Seat 61 (http://www.seat61.com/) too.
I hope this turns it around for you.
Re: Actually from purplecthulhu, busy on another line
Date: 2007-01-07 06:47 pm (UTC)(So I'll probably throw away half the return fare, but that's fine. £60 per person return is a lot cheaper than £150 per person single).
I think it was the difficulty of getting round behind the 'normal' fares that was what was causing me problems. The railways still haven't learnt the lessons the airlines learnt several years ago.
Re: Actually from purplecthulhu, busy on another line
Date: 2007-01-07 08:56 pm (UTC)If you talk to someone at Eurostar UK they are now advising people to book and pay in dollars since their own native currency prices are so high. When we lived in france and travelled the other way it was much cheaper since we benefitted from the SNCF subsidies. That's another possibility in fact - book a return from Paris through the french site, and throw away the return.
Re: Actually from purplecthulhu, busy on another line
Date: 2007-01-07 09:16 pm (UTC)I think I need a professional travel wrangler. I'm beginning to think the train companies are deliberately trying to confuse their passengers. At the moment, I think they're winning. And thereby losing my custom.
(And I'd been to Seat61 earlier.)
Re: Actually from purplecthulhu, busy on another line
Date: 2007-01-07 09:39 pm (UTC)More research underway...
Re: Actually from purplecthulhu, busy on another line
Date: 2007-01-07 09:52 pm (UTC)Clear out all cookies your browser has stored from Eurostar, and when you connect to them you get a page that asks which country you are a resident of. Choose US at this point (or I guess Canada) and all your prices are in dollars and are, I think, cheaper. Select 'collect at station' for your way of getting tickets, and nobody will know you don't live in the USA (or wherever).
Re: Actually from purplecthulhu, busy on another line
From:Re: Actually from purplecthulhu, busy on another line
Date: 2007-01-07 08:57 pm (UTC)So, I'm not sure how you get to buy a Paris to London ticket this way.
Re: Actually from purplecthulhu, busy on another line
Date: 2007-01-07 09:02 pm (UTC)Re: Actually from purplecthulhu, busy on another line
Date: 2007-01-08 07:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-07 05:54 pm (UTC)And they want people to use trains over flying - Josef is flying into Luton and home on the same day for less than 100 CHF total, taxes and credit card processing fee included.
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Date: 2007-01-07 06:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-07 06:38 pm (UTC)How are they scamming if they are providing a quick, efficent service at low cost - bringing travel to those who can't afford more expensive ways to go?
I vote with my wallet. I use the cheapest, most efficent mode of transportation. In this case, it is easyJet.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-07 06:57 pm (UTC)All over the world, encouraged by governments that remain wilfully blind to long-term pollution, cities and regions are competing for the right to open new airports, granting easily affordable landing rights to a plethora of airlines with names like Flybe, Wizzair, Jet2 and Excel, which no one had heard of a few years ago, but which all share one thing — the inalienable right to destroy our environment.
Far from trying to rein back on this insane expansion, most countries are subsidising it — to the tune of about £30 billion a year in Europe alone. There is no VAT on aviation fuel, no VAT on new aircraft and no VAT on ticket sales. In Britain, airlines would have to pay £5 billion a year if they were taxed at the same rate as motorists. Since they do not, tickets cost about 42 per cent less than they did ten years ago, and the number of people who fly is expected to double over the next 15 years. We are, in effect, subsidising an industry that is poisoning our planet, in the name of another industry — tourism — that will, of course, be the first to suffer from the poisoning of our planet.
Emphasis is mine. The scam isn't on the passengers of the budget airlines, it's on the rest of us who subsidise it.
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Date: 2007-01-07 07:01 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2007-01-07 06:59 pm (UTC)For example: It seems that aircraft emissions are up to three times more damaging per passenger kilometre than the raw climate change gas emissions data would suggest.
You have to calculate the efficiency of the whole system - not just the visible tip of the iceberg in your wallet today. Total energy efficiency, and financial cost of remediation of external damage, not just your credit card bill this month.
It's also a myth that low cost airlines mostly serve those who can't afford higher priced tickets. The bulk of the travellers are people who used to fly anyhow, and now fly more often.
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Date: 2007-01-07 09:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-07 07:02 pm (UTC)Personally, I think taxes are the better way. And the easiest one to make directly proportionate to fuel cost/carbon release is a tax on fuel itself. (Charging SUVs extra for parking is totally silly - that's exactly when they're not causing all that damage!)
I really do wish the trains could be more sane, price-wise. Travelling on Swiss or German trains is very civilised, and although the London-Basel route would take longer than flying, it's not that much worse. Returning from Leukerbad is going to require a fair bit of train travel anyway, so we should be able to do it in much the same time.
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Date: 2007-01-07 07:19 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2007-01-07 07:23 pm (UTC)but SUVs are evil incarnate! Our mate the nodnol mayor says so.
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Date: 2007-01-07 07:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-07 07:50 pm (UTC)Return flight - 2x £73.
Taxes - £103.
Admin Charge - £10.
I note the taxes were 125% of the overall flight charge from the carrier. The flight itself is more than cheap, the local Govs involved seem to be taking their pound of flesh which I assume in part at least is done under the 'climate' banner. The recent UK increase in them certainly is.
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Date: 2007-01-07 07:41 pm (UTC)(Decides to fly to Picocon after all)
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Date: 2007-01-07 07:48 pm (UTC)I assume you're flying to P-Con? (Says the man who booked the ferry tickets today.)
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Date: 2007-01-08 05:56 pm (UTC)But you only have to learn most of this once and your exec goes travelling more than that.
The rules of cheap European train travel are:
1. Book in advance
2. Buy separate returns for separate bits of the journey (how I turned London-Rotterdam return from 350 pounds into 77 pounds).
3. If necessary buy a return and don't use the second half
no subject
Date: 2007-01-08 06:07 pm (UTC)I can quite imagine, though, that the first trip is the one that coins it for Eurostar. And those prices are what has deterred us from using Eurostar before: whereas we know there are flight bargains, train bargains are less obvious.
(Also, I grew up in an age when train bargains were getting rail cards, or season tickets, or off-peak returns.)